For other Cohen/Devereux discussions
From: DevereuxP@aol.com Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 07:40:53 -0500 (EST) Fwd Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 11:40:13 -0500 Subject: Re: EL/TST >Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 09:00:06 -0500 >To: UFO UpDates - Toronto <firstname.lastname@example.org> >From: "Jerry Cohen" <email@example.com> >Subject: Re: UFO UpDate: Re: EL/TST On 16 March, Jerry Cohen made an extensive posting so full of 'attitude' that I can't really be bothered to respond in full. But I will pick up on a few points he made, just to show willing. >JC: Paul, I'm sure I've missed something here. Did you say you >have proof that particular light that was "on-off"/"here-gone-here" >was an "earth light." Could you possibly point the members of >this list directly to this information? Is it on the NET. I am >interested in seeing this. No - I didn't say we have proof, we have evidence. I discuss the matter in some length in EARTH LIGHTS REVELATION (1989/90.). A case of this is also described in the Final Technical Report of Project Hessdalen. This, like so much, is not on the literature circuit of American ufology. Don't blame me, blame the publishers and the attitudes and interests their market research people perceive in U.S. ufology.. As for the Net - the longer I look, the less I see that is worthwhile from a ufological standpoint, to be quite honest with you. In any event, don't shun good old-fashioned books and that wonderful democratic institution, the library. > JC:...If you had "little chance ....snip.... >to check the matter," how could you have determined that this >green light was an "earth light" [at Mexico City airport]? I obviously didn't make myself clear. I meant that there have been few cases where we can check the effect of radar on EL. But I gave you the best quick summary I could. As for the Mexican air traffic people, my colleagues and I went into their sightings quite fully with them, have no fear. >JC: So then, in this case [Marfa, Texas], you are reporting a >"failed-study?" Not at all. I simply said that we were unable to get tapes from the authorities who run the radar blimp in that area. I didn't say anything about our study which was in many ways successful (we identified what most people think of as the Marfa lights as distant vehicle and other effects, but we did see one authentic EL in the depths of the Chisos mountains after being tipped off about a suitable location by a local perosn.) >JC: When you get it [radar tapes], I for one would be happy >to see it. I'm sure others would as well. You and me both. (You have the training, expertise and facilities to study such material, I assume?) >JC: Again, many of us have never said there are no such things >as earth lights... I'm glad to hear it. >...but, the person(s) studying them has to 1) prove they are >"earth lights" and not something else.... <snip> Well, I could say that *you* have to prove they *are* something else! It cuts both ways. In truth, all any of us can do is acquire the best evidence we can, and be prepared to drop our pet beliefs if the evidence isn't forthcoming. The ETHers have had 50 years, the ELers have had about 20. We are doing as least as well as the ETHers as far as I can see. And we are increasing our efforts. >JC: And did you capture this [golden lights seen by PD in Cornwall] >on film for others to view? No, my old son, I didn't. I wasn't out skywatching when these phenomena were seen - I was nearing the end of a 350-mile drive, and it was around midnight. There were two adults and one child witness with me, though. One of these did have a snapshot camera, and she took a pic but it didn't come out. Sorry! However, we *have* got some pix from sessions where we deliberately studied areas for EL. Some will be shown in UFOs & UFOLOGY when it comes out later this year. >JC: And you've proven conclusively that light [at Barmouth, >1905] was an "earthlight?" May we see that proof? Again, we'd >be quite interested and impressed. What do you consider as 'proof'? How many UFO sightings do you consider have been 'proven'? Have you not read the reports on this case [Barmouth, 1905]? Have you not read EARTH LIGHTS REVELATION on it? Do so and make up your own mind. I have investigated the multi-witness, specified location report in question and many others in the area, and I have no doubts at all. What can I tell you? > AUGUST 5, 1981 National Enquirer:... <snip. Is this your idea of 'proof' (of anything)? I grow uneasy that your reading seems to be on the Net and in the National Enquirer... > <snip>....Landrum can't tell an "earthlight" from a UFO or a >diamond from a sphere. It's those darn hallucinations. They get >you every time. Did I hear you say there were fault lines in the >vicinity? Huh? Come again, Jerry? >And the beeps? Earthlights beep too, right? I'm sure you've recorded >this somewhere. I have done a survey of sounds associated with EL, yes. Haven't you read that? A version is in EARTH LIGHTS REVELATION (which no U.S. publisher would handle....) > And I must have forgotten that gravity (12/11/2008 - or electromagnetics)
>pushes plasmas into a (12/11/2008 - large) "diamond shape." Maybe it's my
>rotten human perception that does this. I'll have to go back and
>check this out. From the sounds of it, you'd better check *something* out, that's for sure.... >JC: Hmmn. I haven't heard the "vorton" one [Fryberger's hypothesis]. >Is it possible for one to see this posted somewhere as well? Now you have seen the Earth Lights film on Discovery, you will at least have a general idea, I imagine. All good things do not come via the Net... >JC: [Bentwaters]... must be just like the Belgium case where >it got _repelled_ from the front part of the plane that was diving >trying to catch it after it got computerized radar lock-on. The >same plane that got the gun camera data? Very interesting. I'd >like to see that demonstrated in a lab. Perhaps a member of your >group could perform this experiment for us? The logistics seem a bit too daunting, I fear.... > >>So, in short, we really do not know what EL has to explain<< >JC: You said it, not me. No, you said it. *I'm* saying we do not really know what EL is supposed to have to explain, as the alternative notions don't add up to a whole heap...You know, citing videos by the Elders, reports in National Enquirer, statements, credos and flames on the Net, etc., doesn't inspire much confidence. >JC: A large number of us would agree with you [that EL and >spaceships can coinhabit the skies]. The real trouble here is, >you really don't believe they can. Since when are you in a position to make that statement? >JC: Ah, yes, here we go again....the highly scientific approach >of bashing " 'ufology' ....in America." Paul, you sound a little >like the person who wrote; "FLYING-SAUCEROLOGY: Europe vs the >USA...<snip>." I live in the United States, I'm married to an American, I pay taxes in the United States, I spend my money there. (I am the ETHers nightmare - a 'resident alien'... I suppose that makes my old Subaru a kind of structured alien craft...). But I do come from a slightly different culture, and each year I live and travel considerably in other societies and cultures. There is much I like about the United States and its people. But the naive, over-simplistic and literal attitude they take to numerous topics, especially ufology, isn't one of them. If you had my 'alien' perspective, you really would see that much (not all) of what goes on in 'mainstream' US ufology looks at times a bit like a meeting of the Barking Mad Society. It *does* feel like a trip to Salem during the witchunting trials. The United States *does* have a tendency to be very inward-looking in some respects, to think of itself as the sole norm of everything. Miller's CRUCIBLE said it better than I - whether it is McCarthyism or whatever. The sheer size and power of a high-tech United States focusing on its own navel is a distressing wonder to behold - and, again, nowhere more so than in ufology. Alas, the perspective I am speaking of is by definition invisible visible to most of those involved within it, so you *cannot* accept the point I am making. It is just one of those things, I suppose. I tell you this as a friend, not an enemy.( I could tell you much worse things about Britain, I assure you!) It is just an alien's eye view. May your ship come in (from wherever). Paul For other Cohen/Devereux discussions
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